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Культурный Кот
Встретились как-то мы с приятелем, которого я давно не видел, случайно в центре. Тут же решили забуриться к нему в гости, взяли пивка и поехали....
 
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<<Backkseniya's Blog 
Tue, Apr 5, 2005. krugman at his best (nytimes op-ed)
An Academic Question
By PAUL KRUGMAN

It's a fact, documented by two recent studies, that registered Republicans and self-proclaimed conservatives make up only a small minority of professors at elite universities. But what should we conclude from that?

Conservatives see it as compelling evidence of liberal bias in university hiring and promotion. And they say that new "academic freedom" laws will simply mitigate the effects of that bias, promoting a diversity of views. But a closer look both at the universities and at the motives of those who would police them suggests a quite different story.

Claims that liberal bias keeps conservatives off college faculties almost always focus on the humanities and social sciences, where judgments about what constitutes good scholarship can seem subjective to an outsider. But studies that find registered Republicans in the minority at elite universities show that Republicans are almost as rare in hard sciences like physics and in engineering departments as in softer fields. Why?

One answer is self-selection - the same sort of self-selection that leads Republicans to outnumber Democrats four to one in the military. The sort of person who prefers an academic career to the private sector is likely to be somewhat more liberal than average, even in engineering.

But there's also, crucially, a values issue. In the 1970's, even Democrats like Daniel Patrick Moynihan conceded that the Republican Party was the "party of ideas." Today, even Republicans like Representative Chris Shays concede that it has become the "party of theocracy."

Consider the statements of Dennis Baxley, a Florida legislator who has sponsored a bill that - like similar bills introduced in almost a dozen states - would give students who think that their conservative views aren't respected the right to sue their professors. Mr. Baxley says that he is taking on "leftists" struggling against "mainstream society," professors who act as "dictators" and turn the classroom into a "totalitarian niche." His prime example of academic totalitarianism? When professors say that evolution is a fact.

In its April Fools' Day issue, Scientific American published a spoof editorial in which it apologized for endorsing the theory of evolution just because it's "the unifying concept for all of biology and one of the greatest scientific ideas of all time," saying that "as editors, we had no business being persuaded by mountains of evidence." And it conceded that it had succumbed "to the easy mistake of thinking that scientists understand their fields better than, say, U.S. senators or best-selling novelists do."

The editorial was titled "O.K., We Give Up." But it could just as well have been called "Why So Few Scientists Are Republicans These Days." Thirty years ago, attacks on science came mostly from the left; these days, they come overwhelmingly from the right, and have the backing of leading Republicans.

Scientific American may think that evolution is supported by mountains of evidence, but President Bush declares that "the jury is still out." Senator James Inhofe dismisses the vast body of research supporting the scientific consensus on climate change as a "gigantic hoax." And conservative pundits like George Will write approvingly about Michael Crichton's anti-environmentalist fantasies.

Think of the message this sends: today's Republican Party - increasingly dominated by people who believe truth should be determined by revelation, not research - doesn't respect science, or scholarship in general. It shouldn't be surprising that scholars have returned the favor by losing respect for the Republican Party.

Conservatives should be worried by the alienation of the universities; they should at least wonder if some of the fault lies not in the professors, but in themselves. Instead, they're seeking a Lysenkoist solution that would have politics determine courses' content.

And it wouldn't just be a matter of demanding that historians play down the role of slavery in early America, or that economists give the macroeconomic theories of Friedrich Hayek as much respect as those of John Maynard Keynes. Soon, biology professors who don't give creationism equal time with evolution and geology professors who dismiss the view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old might face lawsuits.

If it got that far, universities would probably find ways to cope - by, say, requiring that all entering students sign waivers. But political pressure will nonetheless have a chilling effect on scholarship. And that, of course, is its purpose.
2005-04-05 22:58:16, Гусь
But studies that find registered Republicans in the minority at elite universities show that Republicans are almost as rare in hard sciences like physics and in engineering departments as in softer fields.

a dokazatelstvo???
2005-04-06 10:24:41, Lenka
Gus', this is an editorial for the NYTimes, a small, but noteworthy entry in the paper. Columnists typically do not quote their sources, but are extremely knowledgeable - Krugman is an international economist that has taught at both MIT and Princeton (where he still is teaching). Should you desire to find out the sources and check them out, you can email krugman for proof at krugman@nytimes.com.
2005-04-06 11:33:00, Гусь
ya dumau o dokazatelstvah dolzhny skoree zadumyvatsya te kto v eto verit. inache eto uzhe religiya kakaya-to...
2005-04-06 14:00:16, kseniya
i don't know about his sources, but upenn did a poll prior to elections about the political affiliation of all the professors and they found that 85.2% of them to be liberal registered dems. wharton business school had the heighest precentages of conservatives (43%).
2005-04-06 15:02:13, BeZPREDEL
Гусь, what is so hard to believe? That most of the professors are democrats??
2005-04-06 15:27:36, Гусь
to chto bolshinstvo professorov na vsyakih humanities and social sciences dems eto ponyatno, no vot na hard sciences ne veritsya...
2005-04-06 15:46:02, kseniya
it only makes more sense for the hard sciences where logic is involved...enginnering at penn had one of the highest liberal averages (89%), as well as mathematics (88%)
2005-04-06 15:51:44, Гусь
dazhe esli eto i tak, to eto ne blagodarya logical thinkig, a vopreki...
2005-04-06 16:16:46, BeZPREDEL
Gus', in rutgers most of the profs in cs and math that i encountered indicated that they were democrats as well. Im sure if you find stats on it, you'll see that there is something wrong with your logic;)
2005-04-06 16:42:40, Гусь
Kisa, most i 90% eto vse-taki ne odno i tozhe.

v Courante bolshinstvo profov, kotorye pizdyat o dvoi polit. vzglyadah naverno dems. iz obschego chisla vryad li ih bolshinstvo. no tochno ne 70% i uzh tochno ne 90%.

v etih oprosah problema v tom chto te kto vyskazyvautsya skoree vsego takie zhe isteriki kak i te kto sobralsya v canadu poehat.
2005-04-06 16:46:03, BeZPREDEL
Ya prakticheski uveren, chto v Rutgerse bolshe 70% professorov ili zaregestrirovaniye demokrati ili golosovali za demokratov na proshlih viborah. Nujno proverit' danniye.
2005-04-06 16:46:59, Гусь
a voobsche ne stoit zabyvat chto univery eto gos. ucherezhdeniya s gos. finansirovaniem. dazhe te kotorye private. i togda my vernemsya k voprosu chto v washingtone tozhe tipa 90% bylo za dems...

statistika, kotoraya ni ochem ne govorit...
2005-04-06 16:49:36, BeZPREDEL
http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=10069
2005-04-06 19:21:06, BeZPREDEL
Gus', ti ne zrish v koren.
Respulikanci eto kto?
a) Ludi bogatiye ili kak minimum merkantilniye, chyi interesi respublikanci kosvenno ili napriamuu zashishayut
b) Maloobrazovaniye, kotoriye pokupayutsa ya "values", rreligious and other.
Professura daleko ne bogataya i yavno ne maloobrazovanaya i redko otlichayetsa osoboy religioznostyu. Tak chto vpolne logichno. A Washington tak progolosoval ne izza togo, chto gosslujashiye, a izza togo chto vosnovnom negri...
2005-04-07 01:23:20, Гусь
Respulikanci eto kto?
a) Ludi bogatiye ili kak minimum merkantilniye, chyi interesi respublikanci kosvenno ili napriamuu zashishayut

che za huinya? kisa, ty zabyl chto li? posle election tut na nodreame bylo pismo chuvihi, kotoroi okolo 30. ona rasskazyvala pochemu ona voted za busha.
2005-04-07 10:08:01, Lenka
Gus' - that woman was the exception, not the rule.
2005-04-07 10:30:21, Гусь
Greshnik, Mylua... anybody??? Help!!!

Lenka, ty na schet isklucheniya shutish naverno? prosto vse iz tex kogo ya znau, te kto simpatizirovali bushu, mogli ob'yasnit pochemu. a ot lubitelei dems, ya krome razgovorov ob abortah i o tom kak v evrope horosho nichego ne slyshal
2005-04-07 11:33:35, Zlobniy Troll
Рома, такие же аргументы я могу предьявить и со своей стороны. все демократы что я встречала как правило умные и политически эрудированные люди и могут обьяснить свой выбор. от республиканцев я слышала по большому счёту гораздо менее вменяемые доводы. так что тут уж как повезёт. дураков везде навалом. врядли ктонибудь строит свои политические взгляды строго на абортах. к томуже, женщина про которую ты говоришь писала больше почему она не проголосовала за керри, чем почему она проголосовала за буша.
2005-04-07 11:51:33, Pentagruel
Ya magu dat yeshio odno obisnenie. Professora v uniersitetah chitayut sebya ochen ymnimi i obrazovanami, i poetamu padergivaut "liberalnyu" idea a tom chto vsio znayshio praviltelstvo i intellegencia dalgna pravit nad ludmi, chto ludi critini i poetomu pravitelsto dalgno dumat za nih. Ne dai Bog chto ktoto budet sam otkladivat dengi na budushio, tolko pravitelstva moget eto delat. Ne dai Bog razrishit ludyam pasilat svoih detei v shkoli po ihnemu vibaru, tolko v gasudarstvenie. Zachem durakam v kansase davat svabodu kakda uchenie v princetone znyut kak luche vsevo git.
2005-04-07 14:03:37, LoveLyubov
no ved' nel'zya otrizat' chto sredi naselenia luboi strany budut/est' 'kretiny', kotorye ne podumaut sohranit' den'gi na starost' ili vlozhat vse svoi sberezhenia v riskovanyi investment i poteryaut vse. takie lyudi v pensionnom vozraste dolzhny budut hodit' pobirat'sya ili umirat' izza otsutstvia pishi i krova. normal'noe cevilizovannoe gosudarstvo pytaetsya sokratit' kolichestvo grazhdan, okazavshihsya v takoi situacii.

vse roditeli imeut vozmozhnost' otpravit' detei v shkoly po svoemu vyboru. obychno, te shkoly otlichautsya kvalificirovanymi uchiteleyami ili religioznoi naklonnostju. chtoby predostavit' takie uslugi, shkoly dolzhny brat' platu (supply & demand). esli roditeli ne mogut pozvolit' platit' za shkolu, dolzhny li ih deti rosti bez obrazovania? opyat' zhe dlya cevilizovannogo gosudarstva ne zhelatel'no imet' mnogo neobrazovannyh grazhdan, poetomu ustanavlivautsya gosudarstvennye shkoly dlya vseh detei, kto zhelaet ih poseshat'. esli zhe gosudarstvo stanet pomogat' maloimushim sem'yam otdat' svoego rebenka v chastnye shkoly to vskore vse eti shkoly budut peregruzheny, kachestvo obrazovania snizitsya i shkola opyat' taki prevratitsya v obychnye 'gosudarstvennye' shkoly.
2005-04-07 14:33:32, Pentagruel
In the previous post, I did not argue about which idea is better or more correct, but only answered the question of why it is the case that most professors are liberals. To argue about what is better or more correct requires defining a system of what one values. In my case, I believe that the only legitimate purpose of government is the protection of the lives, liberties, and properties of its citizens. I can even go so far as to explain the reason for this belief. It is based on the understanding of what a government is, a collective institution that derives its right to action from the rights of the governed. Since any given individual can only use force to defend his life, liberty and property from other individuals, and since it would be absurd to say that one individual can justly use force to deprive another of their lift, etc, it is just as absurd to allow a government to do this. This is my paradigm, a paradigm that values freedom. For individuals to be free, they must be allowed to suffer and enjoy the consequences of their actions. There is not freedom if you are only allowed to do what someone else considers "correct".
To return to specifics: Let people invest as they see fit, and let them take responsibilities for their actions. People decided to have children that they can not afford to send to school. It is an unfortunate situation, but the blame goes squarely on the parents, and hence others should not be forced to pay for the education of the unfortunate children.
www.bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
2005-04-08 09:20:27, BeZPREDEL
" praviltelstvo i intellegencia dalgna pravit nad ludmi, chto ludi critini i poetomu pravitelsto dalgno dumat za nih " -- na danniy moment na skolko ya snayu vse nemnogo izmenilos' i u Demokratov namnogo bol'she liberitarian views chem u respublikancev. Krome togo (ha-ha, na perekor Rome) Evropa-to dovolno taki socialisticheskaya, no chto-to ya ne slishal chtobi gosudarstvo tam zagliadivalo ludiam v okna kogda oni yebutsa (a zdec' menti zasekut tebia yebushemsa v okne - mogut i tavo... oshtrafovat', a to i na 15 sutok:)). No yesli pravitelstvo hochet dumat' za menia kak bi mne predostavit' good quolity, cheap (or free), preventive health care - ya 4 rukami za.
2005-04-08 10:08:52, Гусь
V germanii otmenili tainu bankovskogo vklada. teper dazhe suda ne nado. Pomoemu esche huzhe chem ebatsya v okne...

Esli oni nachnut dumat pro cheap (or free) preventive health care, oni zh suki na etom ne ostanovyatsya. oni reshat chto nadfo podumat esche ob etom i o tom. I bac, >10% bezrabotitsa. (Posmotri na germaniu, franciu.)

Voobschem, evropa - tochno huinya.
2005-04-08 13:41:21, Pentagruel
tolka ochen naivnii moget dumat chto pravitelsto moget tebe chtoto bezplatna ili deshevo pridastavit. Pravitelstva vsegda va mnogo raz menie effectiveno chem svabodnii rinok. A na shet respublicanov, v chemto ti prav, no ya ne galocuyu za nih, ya galocuyu libertarian.
2005-04-08 14:19:28, BeZPREDEL
Pentagruel, eto huynia. Effektivno zaplatit' za healthcare ya lichno ne mogu - u menia net takih deneg. I yesli bi ya platil menshe nalogov toje ne bilo bi. I eto prosto s'hodit' k doktoru, a yesli chto-to seryeznoye?? Mne lichno seychas potratit' 1000$ na root canal naprimer vozmojnosti net. Ya, konechno, nadeyus', chto cherez neskolko let ya budu zarabativat' dostatochno, chtobi podderjivat' respublikancev daje ne smotria na ih religiozniye zamorochki i antinauchniye i antichelovecheskiye praktiki (stemm cell, abortions...), no vse je... Ya schitayu chto mestnaya "svobodno-rinochnaya" medecina - porochnaya systema, ne predostavliayushaya normalnogo servica i plodiashaya huyevih doktorov, kotoriye idut v medical school ne po prizvaniyu, a izza babok.
2005-04-08 14:25:11, Гусь
kakoe otnoshenie imeet pravitelstvo k tomu chto vrachi idut v med school ne po prizvaniu? zakon nuzhno sdelat, chtob tolko o gippokrate dumali???

kisa, a pochemu by tebe ne kupit strahovku? a to esli kazhdomu gos-vo tolko za root canal po 1k zaplatit- eto uzhe 300 milliardov...
2005-04-08 16:06:22, BeZPREDEL
pravitelstvo imeet to chto na skolko ya znayu v yevrope plohiye doktora ne poluchayut stolko babok. Sprosi u Gerenkova kak nekotoriye klienti NovoVision rabotali... ili u Anki gde ona rabotala v No Fault office rabotali doktora i SKOLKO oni zarabativali.

A na temu root canal tak kak-to je eto v toy-je anglii rabotayet..... net?
2005-04-08 16:20:40, Гусь
Tak, a nu bystro skazali mne skolko te doktora poluchali!!!

"pravitelstvo imeet to chto na skolko ya znayu v yevrope plohiye doktora ne poluchayut stolko babok."

sam ponyal chto skazal? kak ty uznaesh na urovne pravitelstva horoshii vrach ili plohoi? i voobsche v germnii obschii dogovor u vrachei. tipa kak union. i vrode by odinakovo poluchaut.


2005-04-08 16:35:57, BeZPREDEL
Блин, нет.... просто дохтерам меньше платят вроде (или зарплату, не уверен), а чтобы много бабок делать надо быть ахуительным, тогда к тебе частные клиенты попруцца... Но может я не прав, это умозрительные заключения, так сказать...
2005-04-08 16:51:43, Гусь
v germanii tochno ne tak
2005-04-09 19:01:39, kseniya
"prosto vse iz tex kogo ya znau, te kto simpatizirovali bushu, mogli ob'yasnit pochemu. a ot lubitelei dems, ya krome razgovorov ob abortah i o tom kak v evrope horosho nichego ne slyshal" gus'-since you are under the impression that all republicans can voice their reasons for being affiliated with that particular party...go ahead and enlighted us with your own personal reasons....
2005-04-09 20:18:35, Гусь
reasons for what?
2005-04-09 23:06:42, Lenka
reasons for why you voted for bush (or would have)
2005-04-10 02:01:41, Гусь
i didn't vote. and i wouldn't probably vote for bush. but definitely wouldn't vote vor kerry