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<<Backkseniya's Blog 
Tue, Jan 11, 2005. the good and the right
contemplative
today i started thinking about ethics. i do not mean that ethical principles entered my consciousness today for the very first time, no nothing of that nature. but i mean that i started to REALLY think, that is to say, actively consider the implications of ethical standards set by who ever is in power or whoever has an audience. there is a huge difference between good and evil vs. right and wrong. i feel like i am starting to appreciate this margin that i have never noticed to any formidable extent. cocaine use is good. it makes the person feel good and overall increases the level of happiness in that person's life (oh, no i'm not talking about me or anyone i know, of coarse). but clearly it is not RIGHT. i suppose that was a cheap example, but it will have to suffice for now. any ideas???
2005-01-11 01:12:47, Hobbit
What are you trying to argue? Why is the use of cocaine good but "clearly not RIGHT"? The fact that cocaine is an illegal drug has nothing to do with moral or ethical principles, that's not what makes it wrong to use. Cocaine use is not good, while it makes you "high" for a very short period of time, it is also very addictive and damaging to your health. Drugs are neither good or bad, nor are they right or wrong. They're simply generally a bad idea, especially if used irresponsibly. There are no universal ethics or morals (at least there shouldn't be any), every person decides for himself...

Personally, I don't see a difference between right, wrong, good, evil...they're all abstract concepts that mean absolutely nothing.
2005-01-11 11:03:13, BeZPREDEL
a) I am not sure that cocaine is more physically addictive than altoids (very addictive stuff) of cigarettes... And that it's more harmful to ur health than excessive eating of McDonalds burgers.

b) r., w., g. and e. are not abstract concepts. They are just convinient labels. Our culture that promotes them WANTS them to be abstract concepts.. but they are not.. they are very material as there is not abstract deffinition, in contrary they are defined by their members. Ask someone for a deffinition of evel. They are going to say that "Evil is like evil... it's like .. what?.. Sadam Husein!.." LOL
2005-01-11 12:09:21, kseniya
ok, so perhaps the drug example was a bit too much of a stretch without further explanation regarding the value of 'happiness'. there are a great many political examples, that i am not going to go into in fear of being labeled partisan. let's take waking up in the morning. i think we'd be pressed to not agree that waking up in the morning is 'good' but is it right? i'm just trying to sort these things out while keeping politics out of the arguements. and i agree with kisa- rwge are not abstract concepts...
2005-01-11 12:36:09, BeZPREDEL
ЛОЛ если делать из g.,b.,r. and w. не категории, а экстримы, так сказать направления на координатных осях, и добавить третее и четвёртое измерения для того чтобы отразить то, с чьей точки зрения и при каких обстоятельствах мы проводим оценку... тогда будет попроще
2005-01-11 15:34:18, shadow
гениально, Киса =)
2005-01-11 15:36:22, shadow
ну, Ок, не гениально, но прикольно точно.
2005-01-11 20:25:15, kseniya
so i was actually being serious. as always, my attempts are met with sarcasm...that's ok. i still appreciate your initial input kisa and hobit.
2005-01-11 21:05:34, BeZPREDEL
There is no sarcasm AT all, I am 100% serious.
2005-01-11 21:27:51, kseniya
then try to expain a bit clearer, perhaps i just don't get your circular arguement. the question was: is there a difference between good and right?
2005-01-12 01:56:08, Zlobniy Troll
совершенно согласна с маниловым. добро и зло, хорошо и плохо, всё просто разные слова/ярлыки которые в конце концов обознaчают одно и тоже - "зя/низя". просто "гоод" и "ивел" обычно трактуются религией, а "райт" и "вронг" обществом и абстрактным моралитетом для тех кого не достаточно убедили религиозные доводы. но всё это есть попытки общества и государства подчинить себе народ. что в конечном счёте правильно, люди должны иметь одинаковые понятия о том что можно и нельзя делать когда живёшь с другими людьми. поэтому те кто заведует миром сим с начала времён и народов диктовали остальным что есть правильно а что есть грех. сначала это работало безотказно так как все боялись кары божьей, потом вера стала слабеть, и пришлось непослушных прищучить не только обещанием расплаты за грехи в мире ином, но и тут на земле. для этого использовали тех чья вера была непоколебима, и они были готовы поступиться этими самыми заповедями чтобы покарать еретиков. так в нашем мире появились первые менты. но это лирика... кароче, не буду дальше докучать словесной мастурбацией, хехе, кончаю. хорошо и плохо и зло и добро одни и тежe вещи, придуманные блюстителями закона чтобы люди думали и главное, вели себя одинаково. конечно у каждого думающего индивидума есть ещё и свои понятия, иногда отступающие от общественных. иногда немного, иногда дохуя. но это уже глубоко субъективно, каждый видит мир с высоты своей колокольни. поэтому пытаться вывести обобщённую теорему о том что есть Абсолютное Добро и Зло, занятие неблагодарное и заранее обречено на провал. но то что ты серьёзно думаешь об этом, да ещё и спровоцировала на это других, очень и очень здорово. хоть каждый и остался при своём мнении, покрайней мере постарались их выразить. я выразила лишь малую часть возможных доводов, и скорее всего выразила как обычно через жопу, тоесть неадекватно. разговор надо продолжить в личном контакте со всеми желающими, желательно с алкоголем.
2005-01-14 12:27:09, BeZPREDEL
Good and Bad существуют только в контексте "Хорошо/плохо для меня (Васи/Пести/Печени/Цвета Кожы). А right and wrong это таки да просто labels которые нехуя не значат, кpоме как "this is wrong, because it's not good for me", "this is right because it's good for me (my hair color/my sex life/my finaces)"
2005-01-14 14:32:05, kseniya
don't agree...palestine's attacks on Israel are bad, but not bad for me b/c i'm not in israel nor am i jewish. and they are wrong even though they are not bad for me...
2005-01-15 13:09:05, BeZPREDEL
They are bad for you потому что ты сочувствуешь Израилю. Это зажевает твои личные симпатии. Кто-то, кто симпатизирует арабам, считает, что атаки на Изр. - оправданые акты мщения. Both good and right. А ещё кто-то считает, что они bad (тк убийство - плохо), но right (т.к. единственный возможный метод борьбы со злобными жидами)
Ну и кто из троих right и кто - good?
2005-01-16 14:06:12, kseniya
that's a valid point. and that's why good and right are not interchangable. while people may sympathize with israel or palestine and think it's a good thing that they are doing, they can also say that's it is not right because war is wrong...or something like that. they reason why i started thinking about this is because i feel like right and wrong should be the leading indicators of legislature while good and bad should be kept out of politics...